THE DISCUSSION CONTINUES ON FORGIVENESS AND BOOK CLUB NIGHT

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Good morning on and all. This week has been an interesting week with all the topics which were posted and discussed. I know some were hard to deal with but I must say that you all did well, and I thank you, I am blessed to have all of you here, such a bright set of minds. The book club topic was very hard for me to be as interactive with as usual, I have always found the subject of suicide depressing, and even though I understand it from a strong spiritual perspective, human emotions makes me very sad when I hear of any form of tragedy, The thing is I as a meta-physician know of the spiritual consequences behind certain human actions, therefore it bothers me when faced with topics such as theses, as I am unable to explain to the depths of where I would go to, all that I know to minds which may not be as developed as my own spiritually, some may find my explanations hard to fathom, and that is quite understandable.

Last night during the Book Club discussion the subject of DNR was brought up, Do Not Resuscitate. I thought that it was quite an interesting addition to the topic. Someone asked if this act was suicide or aiding the act. I have found this article of something recent on it.

From Wikipedia;

In medicine, a “do not resuscitate” or “DNR“, sometimes called a “No Code“, is a legal order written either in the hospital or on a legal form to respect the wishes of a patient not to undergo CPR or advanced cardiac life support (ACLS) if their heart were to stop or they were to stop breathing. The term “code” is commonly used by medical professionals as jargon for “calling in a Code Blue” to alert a hospital’s resuscitation team. The DNR request is usually made by the patient or health care power of attorney and allows the medical teams taking care of them to respect their wishes. In the health care community “allow natural death” or “AND” is a term that is quickly gaining favor as it focuses on what is being done, not what is being avoided. Some criticize the term “do not resuscitate” because it sounds as if something important is being withheld, while research shows that only about 5% of patients who require CPR outside the hospital and only 15% of patients who require CPR while in the hospital survive.[1][2] Patients who are elderly, are living in nursing homes, have multiple medical problems, or who have advanced cancer are much less likely to survive.[3]

A DNR does not affect any treatment other than that which would require intubation or CPR. Patients who are DNR can continue to get chemotherapy, antibiotics, dialysis, or any other appropriate treatments.

 

Maine Court Dismisses Do-Not-Resuscitate Appeal

http://ct1.addthis.com/static/r07/sh173.html#iit=1411734930601&tmr=load%3D1411734926568%26core%3D1411734927275%26main%3D1411734930572%26ifr%3D1411734930627&cb=0&cdn=1&chr=UTF-8&kw=General%20news%2CCourts%2CJudiciary%2CGovernment%20and%20politics%2CState%20governments%2CMaine%20Supreme%20Judicial%20Court%2CMaine%20state%20government%2CMaine%2CUnited%20States%2CNorth%20America%2Cus%20news%2Cnational%20news%2Clocal%20news&ab=-&dh=abcnews.go.com&dr=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&du=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com%2FUS%2FwireStory%2Fmaine-court-dismisses-resuscitate-appeal-25632921&dt=Maine%20Court%20Dismisses%20Do-Not-Resuscitate%20Appeal%20-%20ABC%20News&dbg=0&md=0&cap=tc%3D0%26ab%3D0&inst=1&vcl=0&jsl=143489&prod=undefined&lng=en-US&ogt=type%3Darticle%2Curl%2Cdescription%2Ctitle%2Csite_name&pc=men&pub=abcnews&ssl=0&sid=54255d8fa826364c&srpl=1&srcs=1&srd=1&srf=1&srx=1&ver=300&xck=0&xtr=0&og=site_name%3DABC%2520News%26title%3DMaine%2520Court%2520Dismisses%2520Do-Not-Resuscitate%2520Appeal%26description%3DThe%2520state%2520supreme%2520court%2520has%2520dismissed%2520a%2520mother’s%2520appeal%2520of%2520a%2520court-approved%2520do-not-resuscitate%2520decision%2520for%2520her%2520brain-damaged%2520baby%252C%2520saying%2520the%2520matter%2520is%2520moot%2520now%2520that%2520the%2520state%2520has%2520agreed%2520to%2520abide%2520by%2520the%2520mother’s%2520wishes.%2520The%2520child%2520welfare%2520agency%2520that%2520won%2520a%2520judge’s%2520approval%2520to%2520make%2520medical…%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fabcnews.go.com%252FUS%252FwireStory%252Fmaine-court-dismisses-resuscitate-appeal-25632921%26type%3Darticle&aa=0&csi=undefined&rev=5.3&ct=1&xld=1&xd=1

 

The state supreme court has dismissed a mother’s appeal of a court-approved do-not-resuscitate decision for her brain-damaged baby, saying the matter is moot now that the state has agreed to abide by the mother’s wishes.

The child welfare agency that won a judge’s approval to make medical decisions on behalf of the infant announced last week that it would defer to the wishes of the teenage mother.

On Friday, a supreme court spokesman said the mother’s appeal was “dismissed as moot.”

The mother’s attorney, Scott Hess, said he’d hoped the Maine Supreme Judicial Court would weigh in on whether the state violated the mother’s constitutional rights by seeking and winning a state judge’s approval to make life-or-death medical decisions for a child who is in temporary state custody.

“It is disappointing that the mother will not have the opportunity to have the case decided on the legal merits, but we of course respect the decision by the law court,” he said Friday.

The baby suffered severe brain injuries in December when she was shaken by her father, who is awaiting trial, state officials said. The baby cannot see or hear, must be fed through a tube and suffers severe ongoing health problems.

The 18-year-old mother, Virginia Trask, originally agreed to a DNR order but changed her mind after the baby began breathing after being removed from life support and placed in her arms.

The state judge who gave child welfare officials the authority to make medical decisions found that “neither parent can be counted on to be physically or emotionally available to make the necessary informed decision when needed.”

Gov. Paul LePage and the Maine Department of Health and Human Services intervened when the matter became public. For now, the injured baby remains in foster care, and Trask retains visitation rights.

Let us go into deep discussion today, Thank you all!

 

Today we will continue from the weeks post of Abuse, Forgiveness and  Suicide.

 

 

Comments and questions from last night;

From the Moderator Yw;

Hello Obara Meji, the ES fambo, all peepers (of ES only, of course), and everyone else!! This, in my opinion, is too big a topic to do in one go. So, I suggest that we deal with the issue of suicide in parts. If the class agrees, where do we start? If it is ok with all, we could start at #5. and just touch on the other points….
1. Cultural POV (point of View)
2. Emotional POV/coping mechanisms
3. Psycological (mental health issues)
4. Other Health (Terminal illness or comas)

5. Spiritual

Cool. I wonder about the spiritual side of this topic because there are times when a person’s death comes about from their loss of will to keep going. If a person gives up the will to fight but does not physically take their life, is that suicide?

 

From Lalibela NIle;

With a Judeo-Christian upbringing, I was taught that individuals don’t get absolved for committing suicide. Naturally, if you are no longer alive an individual cannot show contrition and repent/atone for said sin. Then you find that in other cultures, the act of suicide is regarded as an act of valor and honor. Muslims don’t regard suicide—under the auspice of jihad—as a cowardice act. Shame derived from great disappointment/dishonor of others often times compel Japanese to commit suicide. Here in the West, suicide is highly shunned as it is associated with a life rife with issues—a troubled person. With the different cultural interpretation of suicide’s meaning/validation, we are left in a quandary.

Social/societal conditioning—nurture—plays a key role in how I perceive suicide; accordingly, I don’t equate the suicide of a Muslim, a Japanese or the typical Westerner as one in the same. The Muslim is of the [opinion] that jihad based suicide is an act that serves the greater good and a duty, the Japanese conclude that the act of suicide preserves honor and respect for one’s family and I opine that most Westerners commit suicide because they see no other option in life.

I dwell in the West an accordingly, I am more inclined to understand the ways of the West—whether I subscribe to them or not. Stress and depression are leading reasons for suicide here in the West. Robin William—who had a history of drug abuse—was diagnosed with parkinson disease and subsequently committed suicide. When I heard of his passing, I did not grieve; knowing that he committed suicide, I just concluded that the troubled man found the easy way out. Then I compared his worst prognosis with the best prognosis of the indigent peoples of the world. Suffering is the norm for the indigent peoples of the world and from a proportional perspective, most don’t commit suicide—even when they face sudden death. I might have to soon question this logic as I most recently discovered that Guyana has replaced Scandinavia as the region/nation with the highest suicide [rate]:

“Guyana has the highest suicide rate in the world

According to data gathered by the World Health Organization, Guyana has the highest suicide rate in the world, with 44 suicides per 100,000 people. That puts them slightly ahead of even North Korea, which has 38.5 suicides per 100,000 people. Among large countries, South Korea, with 28.5 suicides per 100,000 people, and Russia, with 18.5 suicides per 100,000 people, have particularly bad records. The suicide rate in the US is 12.1 per 100,000 people.”

Phyllis as beautiful and talented and fortunate as she was should have been helped before she got to that point where she thought that she was helpless…

From Ty;

The will to live is a flame that must be kept kindled….

All suicides are not equal… I like the analogy of the samarai…their suicide was more of a sacrifice….

There are solders, fire fighters and police officers who put their lives on the line knowing that they will die…some may call this suicide because the know they will die and still forge on,..

I am just getting into the spirituality aspects of life so I am no expert here…but often times, if you give up the will to live, you die….I am not sure of the impact on the spirit…I would think it depends on if you completed the lessons you were to learn in the cycle or not…

In Asain cultures, suicides are acceptable and considered honorable…for example a CEO runs a company into the ground and people lose money, lives, etc due his decisions…he will commit suicide to absolve himself from his actions…

In our western thoughts, this is wrong…

In the eastern thought, he is forgiven…

From Obara Meji;

Robin Williams committed suicide after battling depression, drugs and alcohol for years, then he found out he had Parkinsons and he killed himself, we do not know the true reason why, but I suspect, that he could not deal with what he would go through with this disease in time to come

I believe that many people who commit suicide, had committed this act before in their previous lives, I believe that when they get to a point in their life akin to another life they had lived before, they are challenged, whether of the mind through depression or something in their life that they have to deal with and they go out like that again

Many people who are born with some sort of deformity, are suicide victims from another life or lives, and so they come back in deformed hoping to get pass this present life and unto the next..This is my belief, I hope it was not too deep for y’all!

From Obara Meji;

Robin Williams committed suicide after battling depression, drugs and alcohol for years, then he found out he had Parkinsons and he killed himself, we do not know the true reason why, but I suspect, that he could not deal with what he would go through with this disease in time to come

I believe that many people who commit suicide, had committed this act before in their previous lives, I believe that when they get to a point in their life akin to another life they had lived before, they are challenged, whether of the mind through depression or something in their life that they have to deal with and they go out like that again

Many people who are born with some sort of deformity, are suicide victims from another life or lives, and so they come back in deformed hoping to get pass this present life and unto the next..This is my belief, I hope it was not too deep for y’all!

From Cami;

Emile Durkhiem :” Durkheim explored the differing suicide rates among Protestants and Catholics, arguing that stronger social control among Catholics results in lower suicide rates. He also found that suicide rates were higher among men than women, higher for those who are single than those who are married, higher for people without children than people with children, higher among soldiers than civilians, and higher at times of peace than in times of war.”

“Durkheim was the first to argue that the causes of suicide were to be found in social factors and not individual personalities.”

Source: http://sociology.about.com/od/Works/a/Suicide.htm

He went on to list 3 types: Anomic, Egotistic and Alturistic

Mek me start confess…My first suicidal declaration was because I was financially stress and felt hopeless, then have a temp boss bothering the little bit of peace I had stored up. I walked of the job and saw a bill board advertising the suicidal hotline. I drove home a bit erratic, but calmed down because it would be unfair to cause an accident when it wasn’t the other drivers I was having an issue with- the issue was with myself.

I called the hotline when I went home and bless the girl on the other line. She asked me what were my life options! There I sat, light me spliff and started to take stock of my untested options…less than 2 weeks later I got the job of a life time.,,although the company sold out some years later, lolol

This was a matter of me and society and its expectations not panning out too well. Hence, E.Durkheim egotistical suicide I felt “detached from society”. Again, me weed did me well.

From Nyaha;

Good evening good people. I am not sure about suicide from what I understand about death there are several “types” your spirit leaves (it was time for you to die), your body can’t take it (sometimes the spirit refuses to leave earth or your spirit can also leave cause it was also time for you to die) and emotional death (where your will to die is very strong. This can then lead to a physical death by suicide or even a disease that kills you). I am not an expert on this though, I am learning all this now

From Yazzy;

Good night sweeties. Sorry I’m late. Had to relax and regroup for a sec…

1. I use to be think suicide was a sign of weakness but who are we to say that person was weak? I’ve seen some of the most courageously accomplished people commit suicide as well as your average Joe so for me it’s just a sign of distress and loneliness but not weakness.

2. Thank the heavens I’ve never actually had to deal with it and I have never mentally prepared for it but knowing me… it would bring me to my knees. I’d be filled with guilt. It would hurt that they couldn’t open up to me… mi not even wah stawt tink bout dat ya now.

3. The reasoning must be important to the ones whom have done it. It must have been valid in their minds.

4. I’ve been thru some awful lows that I care not to revisit where I’ve had thoughts of soliciting others to help end my suffering… but thoughts are just thoughts sometimes.

In Healthcare, there’s assisted suicides alll the time… I’m 50/50 on this! Yup I said it!

With that said, if I put deep thoughts into it, I would be of assistance to someone that wants to commit suicide. I’ll explain one day…

From MTH;

YW thanks for holding down the spot for me. Niles thank you as well. Obara, Cami, Courtney, Yazzy, Ty, Nyaha1 and all the peepers, respect.

In my mind how Whitney and Michael Jackson treated themselves is akin to suicide.

From Kia;

Evening all i do not agree with suicide. While life gets heavy at times for me, i want to keep living. For others it may not be that easy so they give up. When we see people like phyllis, robin, kurt corbin who we think have everything we wonder why. Yu just cant kno a persons heart or mind. Now i understand spiritually that suicide deaths have to come again to live their life over, it makes perfect sense. I dont want to watch someone suffer a terminal illness but im no kervokan. Im not helping them die so i hope they have another plan besides me.

Ẹni táa fún lóbì tí ò ṣọpẹ́, táa bá fun lọ́mọ kò ní ṣàna. /
A person who’s not grateful when given kolanut won’t pay his dues if given a bride…..Yoruba Proverb!

[Whoever is ungrateful for minor favours won’t be grateful for major ones.]

 

All religions are valid as long as it teaches peace and love…..Obara Meji!

There are no disappointments in life, only lessons learned…..Obara Meji

 

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nyaha1
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nyaha1

Found this on facebook. Thought it was applicable to this discussion http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Caroline-Myss-on-Why-Forgiveness-Is-the-Most-Selfish-Act-Video

Ty
Blogger

I am off to bed… Will link you all tomorrow…best dreams ever to you all…

Cami
Member
Cami

He also told the court that he’ll see everyone in hell…he need to log on over here so Obara can tell him where him going, lolol

The next time he’ll be in the news is because one of those balls get cut out him face.

Cami
Member
Cami

Yes Yazzy, him is a magnet to him own destruction. Ty, I’ve been trying to pronounce that name from when, dwln.

I would love to slap him on those forehead bumps with a dutch pot just to hear the sound or to see his face in pain, lololll The people who perform these alterations fi go a prison!

Ty
Blogger

What name him have?

This is more than low self esteem…he is a wanna be, who wish for some altered sense of power…he feels that those forehead implants would make him scary and exempt…see him claat going to prison after 4 days of deliberation… A bet him will scream like bitch when dem ketch him in prison…no more ruff demon voice…

Cami
Member
Cami

Another article:

I think last night we were suppose to include self esteem in the conversation BUT the main character in this article throws the concept of self esteem into a tailspin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2771367/Man-implanted-horns-666-tattoo-convicted-triple-murder-screams-jury-f-hell.html

Lalibela A Nile (@Lalibela_Nile)
Blogger

So Ty, most of FL would be rendered desolate then…

NuNu
Blogger
NuNu

Wow that’s crazy, so Belgium is the place to be if you want to be euthanized. The ppl dem kids seh they are all for it because none a them have the time to look out for the remaining parent.

Cami
Member
Cami

Near end a month so Obara well busy. O you a work before holloween come? Had a Padrino who nu work dem time de because him say people like to throw all kind of things out in the world at that time by going to the cemeteries.

Lalibela A Nile (@Lalibela_Nile)
Blogger

OMG, this is so wrong… The children are the worst. “Identified only by their first names, Francis, 89, and Anne, 86, they have the support of their three adult children who say they would be unable to care for either parent if they became widowed.”

Cami
Member
Cami

Yazzy! yu slip whey last night, lol It’s weekend…so we spirits have fi TUN UP.

Me a watch TV movie so i’m in and out.

Yazzy
Blogger
Yazzy

Goodnight Obara **know bout** Meji-Chinn!!!!!
Night all mi other sweeties!!!

Mi seh mi come buck up pan mi man dem name and yuh see like how mi “blue” I SO need HENNY ONE A DEM or even BOTH!! Yes, mi wi manij!!! ūüėÄ

Ayeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!

New Name
Blogger
New Name

Mi duss ah si di comment Obara
Ayeeeee (maskita bite mi)

NuNu
Blogger
NuNu

Lol! Cami disambiguate di las’ part deh “earth bounds” nuh nah lef dsr alone, lololol

New Name
Blogger
New Name

Hey Nunu boo

Cami
Member
Cami

OBARA! Me nah lie me could a read something inna de weekend yah…please to call upon your story telling spirit. Please and tonks.

NuNu
Blogger
NuNu

Evelin’ fam, how unoo duh?

New Name
Blogger
New Name

lol @Cami
Gonna check out the price

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Blogger
New Name

Thanks guys!!!
I am trying to stay out of dem way, but is like the more I try, the more they have to say. I will send the flowers

Thanks fambo

New Name
Blogger
New Name

Dats kool Mama. Mi juss did waa hear what you guys think

New Name
Blogger
New Name

Obara, Lali, tell me what you guys would do in this situation please. I have an Aunt who carry news pon mi to someone who could very well harm mi, shi ah give di person di ammunition. Her daughter, mi know from mawning, nuh like mi, an nung ah midnight. Obara, remember yesterday I commented that its like you knew what I was struggling with, when you did the topic on ‘forgiveness’? Well, it was the night before that I heard that the said daughter pass remark bout mi pickney, and to tell the truth, it bun mi so till,… Read more ¬Ľ

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Obara, this forgiveness thing for me is deep. I am struggling to try to forgive some people, and its like the more I try to stay outta dem way, is di more dem mek me an issue

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New Name

Mi deh yere, juss come back from road

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New Name

Helloooo

nyaha1
Blogger
nyaha1

good afternoon good people. Anyone here?

New Name
Blogger
New Name

Good afternoon everyone

Cami
Member
Cami

Good afternoon all peepers and bloggers. NuNu and Toy! big up.

Lalibela you lock it dung well last night…Ty (smiling) AFTERNOON SUNSHINE, hope your feel better.

I’ll come in frequently to what I can add to the conversations.

MTH
Blogger
MTH

Love and light everyone. Teach, I am going to pop out for a little bit. Take care untilIget back.

NuNu
Blogger
NuNu

Hey Ty, Lalibela and Toy, I’m in the process of catching up!

Toy
Member

Good morning everyone! I do apologize for missing class yesterday. I am going to read and catch up.

TY
Blogger
TY

Morning everyone…I am a bit under the weather from allergies and fell asleep last night…I am doing my usual peeping at work but will catch up later…

Obara, this week has been awesome, the whole family touched on some amazing and deep thoughts…

I wish you all a wonderful friday and weekend…

Lalibela A Nile (@Lalibela_Nile)
Blogger

NuNu, you were here in spirit!

NuNu
Blogger
NuNu

Good morning fam! I’m sorry I missed last nights class. These last few posts haven’t been easy to digest, plus I’ve been busy running around like a headless chicken

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